Discussion:
Luxury car buyers: how will you explain it to your Creator?
(too old to reply)
M_P
2008-09-22 21:31:35 UTC
Permalink
When you leave this earth and your expensive car behind to stand
before your Creator, how will you explain to Him why you spent so much
money on a car in the face of so many others' unmet basic needs?
Joe Gliebe
2008-09-22 23:25:06 UTC
Permalink
He will say "You worked hard, you did well, using your brain the way I
intended"

Obviously you did not!!What will you tell him?
Post by M_P
When you leave this earth and your expensive car behind to stand
before your Creator, how will you explain to Him why you spent so much
money on a car in the face of so many others' unmet basic needs?
M_P
2008-09-23 15:38:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by Joe Gliebe
He will say "You worked hard, you did well, using your brain the way I
intended"
Which is how you got the money. What about how you used it?
Post by Joe Gliebe
Obviously you did not!!
Non sequitur.
Post by Joe Gliebe
What will you tell him?
Post by M_P
When you leave this earth and your expensive car behind to stand
before your Creator, how will you explain to Him why you spent so much
money on a car in the face of so many others' unmet basic needs?
Joe Gliebe
2008-09-23 17:40:54 UTC
Permalink
Do you wet your bed every night?
Post by Joe Gliebe
He will say "You worked hard, you did well, using your brain the way I
intended"
Which is how you got the money. What about how you used it?
Post by Joe Gliebe
Obviously you did not!!
Non sequitur.
Post by Joe Gliebe
What will you tell him?
Post by M_P
When you leave this earth and your expensive car behind to stand
before your Creator, how will you explain to Him why you spent so much
money on a car in the face of so many others' unmet basic needs?
Joe Gliebe
2008-09-23 17:46:22 UTC
Permalink
OH by the way, forgot to ask, at what point in life did you fail, an am I,
or others, responsible for you failing? Get a life, get a job, get real,
and quit blaming others for all your woes. You must be a joy to be around!

Confirm please you are a democrat, a liberal, socialist, possible marxist,
and bedwetter!
Thanks,, now go away
Joe
Post by Joe Gliebe
He will say "You worked hard, you did well, using your brain the way I
intended"
Which is how you got the money. What about how you used it?
Post by Joe Gliebe
Obviously you did not!!
Non sequitur.
Post by Joe Gliebe
What will you tell him?
Post by M_P
When you leave this earth and your expensive car behind to stand
before your Creator, how will you explain to Him why you spent so much
money on a car in the face of so many others' unmet basic needs?
M_P
2008-09-23 18:01:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by Joe Gliebe
OH by the way, forgot to ask, at what point in life did you fail,
I didn't.
Post by Joe Gliebe
an am I,
or others, responsible for you failing?
No.
Post by Joe Gliebe
Get a life, get a job, get real,
Already done.
Post by Joe Gliebe
and quit blaming others for all your woes.
Where did I say I have any woes, much less blame anyone for them?
Looks like I hit a nerve.
Post by Joe Gliebe
You must be a joy to be around!
Confirm please you are a democrat, a liberal, socialist, possible marxist,
and bedwetter!
Thanks,, now go away
Post by Joe Gliebe
He will say "You worked hard, you did well, using your brain the way I
intended"
Which is how you got the money. What about how you used it?
Post by Joe Gliebe
Obviously you did not!!
Non sequitur.
Post by Joe Gliebe
What will you tell him?
Post by M_P
When you leave this earth and your expensive car behind to stand
before your Creator, how will you explain to Him why you spent so much
money on a car in the face of so many others' unmet basic needs?
M_P
2008-09-23 19:48:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by Joe Gliebe
Confirm please you are a democrat,
Nope.
Post by Joe Gliebe
a liberal,
Nope.
Post by Joe Gliebe
socialist,
Nope.
Post by Joe Gliebe
possible marxist,
Nope.
Post by Joe Gliebe
and bedwetter!
Well, your mom's bed sometimes gets wet when I ... no, no, that's not
a Christian thing to say.
Post by Joe Gliebe
Thanks,, now go away
Post by Joe Gliebe
He will say "You worked hard, you did well, using your brain the way I
intended"
Which is how you got the money. What about how you used it?
Post by Joe Gliebe
Obviously you did not!!
Non sequitur.
Post by Joe Gliebe
What will you tell him?
Post by M_P
When you leave this earth and your expensive car behind to stand
before your Creator, how will you explain to Him why you spent so much
money on a car in the face of so many others' unmet basic needs?
stuart
2008-09-27 16:21:06 UTC
Permalink
More likely Republican...
Post by Joe Gliebe
OH by the way, forgot to ask, at what point in life did you fail, an am I,
or others, responsible for you failing? Get a life, get a job, get real,
and quit blaming others for all your woes. You must be a joy to be around!
Confirm please you are a democrat, a liberal, socialist, possible marxist,
and bedwetter!
Thanks,, now go away
Joe
Post by Joe Gliebe
He will say "You worked hard, you did well, using your brain the way I
intended"
Which is how you got the money. What about how you used it?
Post by Joe Gliebe
Obviously you did not!!
Non sequitur.
Post by Joe Gliebe
What will you tell him?
Post by M_P
When you leave this earth and your expensive car behind to stand
before your Creator, how will you explain to Him why you spent so much
money on a car in the face of so many others' unmet basic needs?
M_P
2008-09-29 15:34:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by stuart
More likely Republican...
Also wrong.
Post by stuart
Post by Joe Gliebe
OH by the way, forgot to ask, at what point in life did you fail, an am I,
or others, responsible for you failing?  Get a life, get a job, get real,
and quit blaming others for all your woes.  You must be a joy to be
around!
Post by Joe Gliebe
Confirm please you are a democrat, a liberal, socialist, possible marxist,
and bedwetter!
Thanks,, now go away
Joe
Post by Joe Gliebe
He will say "You worked hard, you did well, using your brain the way I
intended"
Which is how you got the money. What about how you used it?
Post by Joe Gliebe
Obviously you did not!!
Non sequitur.
Post by Joe Gliebe
What will you tell him?
Post by M_P
When you leave this earth and your expensive car behind to stand
before your Creator, how will you explain to Him why you spent so much
money on a car in the face of so many others' unmet basic needs?
Joe Gliebe
2008-09-29 20:44:55 UTC
Permalink
Well, to put it in a bipartisan way, and not very eloquently, he is fucked
up and does not know it.
Post by stuart
More likely Republican...
Post by Joe Gliebe
OH by the way, forgot to ask, at what point in life did you fail, an am I,
or others, responsible for you failing? Get a life, get a job, get real,
and quit blaming others for all your woes. You must be a joy to be
around!
Post by Joe Gliebe
Confirm please you are a democrat, a liberal, socialist, possible marxist,
and bedwetter!
Thanks,, now go away
Joe
Post by Joe Gliebe
He will say "You worked hard, you did well, using your brain the way I
intended"
Which is how you got the money. What about how you used it?
Post by Joe Gliebe
Obviously you did not!!
Non sequitur.
Post by Joe Gliebe
What will you tell him?
Post by M_P
When you leave this earth and your expensive car behind to stand
before your Creator, how will you explain to Him why you spent so much
money on a car in the face of so many others' unmet basic needs?
Low Life #3
2008-09-23 07:41:02 UTC
Permalink
"M_P" <***@rocketmail.com> wrote in message news:c8708d7e-a445-4bc6-9bc0-***@a70g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
: When you leave this earth and your expensive car behind to stand
: before your Creator, how will you explain to Him why you spent so much
: money on a car in the face of so many others' unmet basic needs?

that luxury automobiles are made by people with families to feed.
M_P
2008-09-23 15:42:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by Low Life #3
: When you leave this earth and your expensive car behind to stand
: before your Creator, how will you explain to Him why you spent so much
: money on a car in the face of so many others' unmet basic needs?
that luxury automobiles are made by people with families to feed.
There are (at least) two problems with that reasoning:

* The necessities that those with unmet basic needs could have
purchased with that money are also made by people with families to
feed.
* At best, that's an argument for not participating in a sudden mass
rush out of the luxury car market, since only such a spike would leave
workers without employment alternatives. Since there's no realistic
chance of such a sudden mass rush, your logic fails.
Low Life #3
2008-09-23 16:35:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by Low Life #3
: When you leave this earth and your expensive car behind to stand
: before your Creator, how will you explain to Him why you spent so much
: money on a car in the face of so many others' unmet basic needs?
that luxury automobiles are made by people with families to feed.
There are (at least) two problems with that reasoning:

* The necessities that those with unmet basic needs could have
purchased with that money are also made by people with families to
feed.

true enough, however the costs of living where lurury automobiles are made
are, generally higher than where people with unmet basic needs live.


* At best, that's an argument for not participating in a sudden mass
rush out of the luxury car market, since only such a spike would leave
workers without employment alternatives. Since there's no realistic
chance of such a sudden mass rush, your logic fails.

no, my logic stands. and speaking of realistic chances, since I don't
believe in a Biblical style creator, certainly not some flea bitten guy in a
flowing robe and a long beard who appears to people in the desert there's
not much chance I'll be standing before him, is there?
M_P
2008-09-23 16:57:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by M_P
Post by Low Life #3
: When you leave this earth and your expensive car behind to stand
: before your Creator, how will you explain to Him why you spent so much
: money on a car in the face of so many others' unmet basic needs?
that luxury automobiles are made by people with families to feed.
* The necessities that those with unmet basic needs could have
purchased with that money are also made by people with families to
feed.
true enough, however the costs of living where lurury automobiles are made
are, generally higher than where people with unmet basic needs live.
Which proves what?
Post by M_P
* At best, that's an argument for not participating in a sudden mass
rush out of the luxury car market, since only such a spike would leave
workers without employment alternatives. Since there's no realistic
chance of such a sudden mass rush, your logic fails.
no, my logic stands.
I've argued why it doesn't ... 'nuh-uh' is not a rebuttal.
Post by M_P
and speaking of realistic chances, since I don't
believe in a Biblical style creator, certainly not some flea bitten guy in a
flowing robe and a long beard who appears to people in the desert there's
not much chance I'll be standing before him, is there?
The question is not whether you believe in Him but whether He believes
in you.
PeterD
2008-09-23 12:58:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by M_P
When you leave this earth and your expensive car behind to stand
before your Creator, how will you explain to Him why you spent so much
money on a car in the face of so many others' unmet basic needs?
Easy, I'd say "They had the same opportunities as I did." Fact of the
matter is, no one gave it to me (my inheritance was a letter opener,
worth about $5) and I didn't steal it (worked for everything I have.)

Of course self-righteous people don't believe it, but that's life!

Try this on for size:

Father/daughter talk...

A young woman was about to finish her first year of college. Like so
many others her age, she considered herself to be a very liberal
Democrat, and among other liberal ideals, was very much in favor of
higher taxes to support more government programs, in other words,
redistribution of wealth.

She was deeply ashamed that her father was a rather staunch
Republican, a feeling she openly expressed.

Based on the lectures that she had participated in, and the occasional
chat with a professor, she felt that her father had for years harbored
an evil, selfish desire to keep what he thought should be his.

One day she was challenging her father on his opposition to higher
taxes on the rich and the need for more government programs.

The self-professed objectivity proclaimed by her professors had to be
the truth and she indicated so to her father.

He asked how she was doing in school.

Taken aback, she answered rather haughtily that she had a 4.0 GPA, and
let him know that it was tough to maintain, insisting that she was
taking a very difficult course load and was constantly studying, which
left her no time to go out and party like other people she knew.

She didn't even have time for a boyfriend, and didn't have time for
partying with friends because she spent all her time studying.

Her father listened and then asked, 'How is your friend Audrey doing?'

She replied, 'Audrey is barely getting by. All she takes are easy
classes, she never studies, and she barely has a 2.0 GPA. She is so
popular on campus; college for her is a blast. She's always invited to
all the parties and lots of times she doesn't even show up for her
classes because she's too hung over.'

Her wise father asked his daughter, 'Why don't you go to the Dean's
office and ask him to deduct 1.0 off your GPA and give it to your
friend who only has a 2.0. That way you will both have a 3.0 GPA and
certainly that would be a fair and equal distribution of GPA.'

The daughter, visibly shocked by her father's suggestion, angrily
fired back, That's insane!

How could that be fair???

I've worked really hard for my grades! I've invested a lot of time,
and a lot of hard work!

Audrey has done next to nothing toward her degree. She played while I
worked my tail off!'

The father sheepishly smiled, winked and said gently, 'Welcome to the
Republican party.'

I've never heard a better explanation of the difference between
Republican and Democrat.
M_P
2008-09-23 15:48:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by PeterD
Post by M_P
When you leave this earth and your expensive car behind to stand
before your Creator, how will you explain to Him why you spent so much
money on a car in the face of so many others' unmet basic needs?
Easy, I'd say "They had the same opportunities as I did."
Every single one of them? Can you provide any reason to believe that?
Post by PeterD
Fact of the
matter is, no one gave it to me (my inheritance was a letter opener,
worth about $5)
Your Creator gave you everything you have and everything you are.
Post by PeterD
and I didn't steal it (worked for everything I have.)
You think your Creator sets the bar that low: spend it however you
want, just don't steal it?
Post by PeterD
Of course self-righteous people don't believe it,
I believe nobody on earth gave it to you and you didn't steal it.
Post by PeterD
but that's life!
Father/daughter talk...
A young woman was about to finish her first year of college. Like so
many others her age, she considered herself to be a very liberal
Democrat, and among other liberal ideals, was very much in favor of
higher taxes to support more government programs, in other words,
redistribution of wealth. [...]
Try this on for size: I'm opposed to government redistribution of
wealth.
PeterD
2008-09-23 18:58:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by M_P
Post by PeterD
Post by M_P
When you leave this earth and your expensive car behind to stand
before your Creator, how will you explain to Him why you spent so much
money on a car in the face of so many others' unmet basic needs?
Easy, I'd say "They had the same opportunities as I did."
Every single one of them? Can you provide any reason to believe that?
Perhaps even more opportunities. Can you provide any reason to believe
that?
Post by M_P
Post by PeterD
Fact of the
matter is, no one gave it to me (my inheritance was a letter opener,
worth about $5)
Your Creator gave you everything you have and everything you are.
Who? WHO? creator? Like in a fiction story author?
Post by M_P
Post by PeterD
and I didn't steal it (worked for everything I have.)
You think your Creator sets the bar that low: spend it however you
want, just don't steal it?
Who's this creator dude? Got an address on him? Bet he has money? Why
doesn't he support 'his' poor? He created 'em right? What the fuck is
wrong with him, anyway? Creates poor and then expects *me* to pay for
his fuckups?
Post by M_P
Post by PeterD
Of course self-righteous people don't believe it,
I believe nobody on earth gave it to you and you didn't steal it.
Well that's a plus.
Post by M_P
Post by PeterD
but that's life!
Father/daughter talk...
A young woman was about to finish her first year of college. Like so
many others her age, she considered herself to be a very liberal
Democrat, and among other liberal ideals, was very much in favor of
higher taxes to support more government programs, in other words,
redistribution of wealth. [...]
Try this on for size: I'm opposed to government redistribution of
wealth.
That's a start. Feel free to give whatever you want to anyone you
want. Just don't expect others to live life the way you do.
M_P
2008-09-23 19:51:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by PeterD
Post by M_P
Post by PeterD
Post by M_P
When you leave this earth and your expensive car behind to stand
before your Creator, how will you explain to Him why you spent so much
money on a car in the face of so many others' unmet basic needs?
Easy, I'd say "They had the same opportunities as I did."
Every single one of them? Can you provide any reason to believe that?
Perhaps even more opportunities. Can you provide any reason to believe
that?
Why would *I* provide reason to believe *your* speculation? That's
your job.
Post by PeterD
Post by M_P
Post by PeterD
Fact of the
matter is, no one gave it to me (my inheritance was a letter opener,
worth about $5)
Your Creator gave you everything you have and everything you are.
Who? WHO? creator?
The Creator you were so confidently answering in your last post.
Thomas Andersson
2008-09-23 21:21:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by M_P
Your Creator gave you everything you have and everything you are.
Then wouldn't it be an insult to him and blasphemy if I gave it away?
Aparently he found the ones with unmeet needs as unworthy as he gave it to
me and not to them to start with?

Best Wishes
Thomas *What if God was one of us, just a slob like one of us?*
JimInsolo
2008-09-23 16:26:33 UTC
Permalink
You are sitting in a house with electricity, running water etc. etc. and
typing all this stuff on a personal computer, while 50% of the earth's
population can barely feed themselves on a daily basis- how do you reconcile
that ?
Post by M_P
When you leave this earth and your expensive car behind to stand
before your Creator, how will you explain to Him why you spent so much
money on a car in the face of so many others' unmet basic needs?
M_P
2008-09-23 16:50:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by JimInsolo
You are sitting in a house with electricity, running water
Both of which contribute to my physical health. Can that be said of a
luxury car vs. a less expensive car?
Post by JimInsolo
etc. etc. and
typing all this stuff on a personal computer,
Which I don't own.
Post by JimInsolo
while 50% of the earth's
population can barely feed themselves on a daily basis- how do you reconcile
that ?
Is that what you'll tell your Creator: "I think M_P did it too"?
Post by JimInsolo
Post by M_P
When you leave this earth and your expensive car behind to stand
before your Creator, how will you explain to Him why you spent so much
money on a car in the face of so many others' unmet basic needs?
JimInsolo
2008-09-23 17:43:52 UTC
Permalink
So its OK for you to ride in a luxury car as long as you don't own it.
Post by JimInsolo
You are sitting in a house with electricity, running water
etc. etc. and
typing all this stuff on a personal computer,
Which I don't own.
M_P
2008-09-23 18:16:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by JimInsolo
So its OK for you to ride in a luxury car as long as you don't own it.
How would my refusing to ride in a luxury car give me any extra
resources to help any needy person?
Post by JimInsolo
Post by JimInsolo
You are sitting in a house with electricity, running water
I see you deleted my question: "Can that [contributes to my physical
health] be said of a luxury car vs. a less expensive car?"
Post by JimInsolo
Post by JimInsolo
etc. etc. and
typing all this stuff on a personal computer,
Which I don't own.
unknown
2008-09-23 16:35:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by M_P
When you leave this earth and your expensive car behind to stand
before your Creator, how will you explain to Him why you spent so much
money on a car in the face of so many others' unmet basic needs?
Wow, what a question. Here is a simple answer.

I will only be able to answer to one of my creators, as my mother is
dead. My father, however, the remaining creator, works hard, enjoys
some luxuries, provides housing and opportunities across an array of
incomes (from subsidized/HUD to high-end). He's pretty proud that he
has a pair of college graduates for kids who put themselves through
school (no help from him), one who provides a fantasti home for 4 kids
and a husband, both of those work very hard in their city helping
causes, charities, etc.

Myself, the other college grad forwent his engineering degree to turn
to financial services where I help people build the wealth that will
see them through retirement without ending up homeless, and all the
whlie protecting their families against fiscal devestation should one
die. I'm actually going to a funeral tomorrow eve for one of my
clients who would have been left a penniless mom with two young
teenage daughters were it not for the services I guided them through.

I sleep quite well at night. I know my two creators are proud of me. I
know that I do a good thing and yes, I enjoy a few luxuries while I am
alive and able to do so. I don't look down on others, I would happily
lend a helping hand, but I do not give to organized
fraud....errr..Charities the way my sister does. I help people
directly through mentoring and the occasional financial help.

I am not the least bit religious but just as the organized
brainwashing books would have you believe, I also believe in doing
right by other people. I watch choices. If you make bad ones, don't
expect me to bail you out. If you have opportunities and let them
slide by or procastinate until it's too late, don't come after me for
help or my tax dollars. That's YOUR fault. Again, I sleep quite well
at night knowing that I *DO* make a significant difference in peoples
lives when they need it the most.

What, might I ask, do YOU do besides sit back in the comfort of your
own home typing on that luxurious computer (82% of the worlds
population can't afford them you know) and try to judge others without
any background at all? That, my dear M_P, might be an interesting
response to read...
M_P
2008-09-23 16:54:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by unknown
Post by M_P
When you leave this earth and your expensive car behind to stand
before your Creator, how will you explain to Him why you spent so much
money on a car in the face of so many others' unmet basic needs?
Wow, what a question. Here is a simple answer.
I will only be able to answer to one of my creators, as my mother is
dead. My father, however, the remaining creator, [...]
If you're right, you're covered.
Post by unknown
I also believe in doing
right by other people.  I watch choices. If you make bad ones, don't
expect me to  bail you out. If you have opportunities and let them
slide by or procastinate until it's too late,
Is that the case for all those with unmet basic needs?
Post by unknown
don't come after me for
help or my tax dollars.
Who said anything about tax dollars.
Post by unknown
That's YOUR fault.  Again, I sleep quite well
at night knowing that I *DO* make a significant difference in peoples
lives when they need it the most.  
What, might I ask, do YOU do besides sit back in the comfort of your
own home typing on that luxurious computer
You've made at least two false assumptions there ... and, as they say,
made an ass of u not me.
Post by unknown
(82% of the worlds
population can't afford them you know) and try to judge others
I do my best not to judge ... and it's not *my* judgment anyone should
worry about.
Post by unknown
without any background at all?
What "background" do you suppose I need? Does anyone require a luxury
car for, say, medical reasons?
Post by unknown
That, my dear M_P, might be an interesting
response to read...
IB
2008-09-23 19:06:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by M_P
When you leave this earth and your expensive car behind to stand
before your Creator, how will you explain to Him why you spent so much
money on a car in the face of so many others' unmet basic needs?
My creators are no longer alive. I won't leave this earth, I may however be
chemically converted by flames / worms or whatever.
unknown
2008-09-23 21:18:49 UTC
Permalink
You know something guys and gals, I will be the first to admit it...

This troll ventured in here, spawned some BS nonsense to get a rise
out of us and each and every one of us bit the bait.

Congrats to the troll for getting what they wanted.
M_P
2008-09-23 21:49:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by unknown
You know something guys and gals, I will be the first to admit it...
This troll ventured in here, spawned some BS nonsense to get a rise
out of us and each and every one of us bit the bait.
Congrats to the troll for getting what they wanted.
I ask a question of particular relevance to readers of these groups,
and reply point-by-point to all responses including yours ... and
rather than respond substantively you label my original post "some BS
nonsense" and me a "troll." Nothing in the usual meaning of
"troll" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troll_(Internet) ) fits my
behavior ... but this fits yours: "The term is often used to discredit
an opposing position, or its proponent, by argument fallacy ad
hominem."
PeterD
2008-09-23 23:14:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by M_P
Post by unknown
You know something guys and gals, I will be the first to admit it...
This troll ventured in here, spawned some BS nonsense to get a rise
out of us and each and every one of us bit the bait.
Congrats to the troll for getting what they wanted.
I ask a question of particular relevance to readers of these groups,
and reply point-by-point to all responses including yours ... and
rather than respond substantively you label my original post "some BS
nonsense" and me a "troll." Nothing in the usual meaning of
"troll" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troll_(Internet) ) fits my
behavior ... but this fits yours: "The term is often used to discredit
an opposing position, or its proponent, by argument fallacy ad
hominem."
Of course you are a troll... Wiki or no Wiki.

What you did is spew your religious beliefs to a bunch of people who
simply don't agree with you. You are a troll because there is *no*
RELIGION in the group names!
M_P
2008-09-24 14:36:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by PeterD
Post by M_P
Post by unknown
You know something guys and gals, I will be the first to admit it...
This troll ventured in here, spawned some BS nonsense to get a rise
out of us and each and every one of us bit the bait.
Congrats to the troll for getting what they wanted.
I ask a question of particular relevance to readers of these groups,
and reply point-by-point to all responses including yours ... and
rather than respond substantively you label my original post "some BS
nonsense" and me a "troll." Nothing in the usual meaning of
"troll" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troll_(Internet) ) fits my
behavior ... but this fits yours: "The term is often used to discredit
an opposing position, or its proponent, by argument fallacy ad
hominem."
Of course you are a troll... Wiki or no Wiki.
What you did is spew your religious beliefs to a bunch of people who
simply don't agree with you.
Speak for yourself. Joe Gliebe implicitly accepted my assumptions of a
Creator and judgment in responding, "He will say [...] What will you
tell him?", and Jim Insolo asked only whether I had made choices for
which I would also be subject to the Creator's judgment.
Post by PeterD
You are a troll because there is *no*
RELIGION in the group names!
So discussing a luxury-car sales tax hike in these groups would be
trolling because there's no politics in the group names? Your narrow
definition of what's on-topic is open to question, to say the least.
Thomas Andersson
2008-09-24 16:34:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by M_P
Speak for yourself. Joe Gliebe implicitly accepted my assumptions of a
Creator and judgment in responding, "He will say [...] What will you
tell him?", and Jim Insolo asked only whether I had made choices for
which I would also be subject to the Creator's judgment.
Our religion is Ferrari and the Creator is Enzo, I doubt he minds us
purchasing his creation.

Thou shalt not have any supercar but mine (bloody tractor bulls *snigger*)!
Thy tires shalt be the correct blackness upon the wratch of thy creator!
There shall be only one rosso corsa and thy corsa shalt be rosso!

Best Wishes
Thomas *peace out*
Paul Duffin
2008-09-27 08:16:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by Thomas Andersson
Thy tires shalt be the correct blackness upon the wratch of thy creator!
There shall be only one rosso corsa and thy corsa shalt be rosso!
I'm watching you, Andersson.... oh yes.

-Paul
--
http://www.mc-pd.co.uk/
Vanity, vanity, vanity.... oh, and some a.a.f. stuff.
Now including the 'Toys' page. Send me your pics!
Billybob
2008-09-24 21:24:37 UTC
Permalink
I knowed it all along- Ol' God loves us rednecks. He ain't never sent no
dipstick over to the rusty truck forum acuusin' us of bein selfish & stuff.
You furrin car lovers is jus gettin yur comeuppance. I'm a gonna call my
cuzzin and tell her to bring our kids over and invite MP to read from the
good book and have some downhome cookin.
Post by unknown
You know something guys and gals, I will be the first to admit it...
This troll ventured in here, spawned some BS nonsense to get a rise
out of us and each and every one of us bit the bait.
Congrats to the troll for getting what they wanted.
MH
2008-09-23 23:12:28 UTC
Permalink
Heh, at least it generated some activity in the group. :-)

If I believed in Hell (I don't - I find the idea of God's personal
torture chamber offensive), owning a Ferrari would be a nice way to get
there. But that's not really a 'luxury' car, is it? It's a sports car.
Oh well, a Bentley would be as nice. ;-) Truly, what sort of
'creator' is going to hold my success against me?

Though I admit to some confusion on the relationship of owning a nice
car vs. helping the unfortunate. You're not allowed to do both? Maybe
we need to define 'luxury' - is there a spending cap? And who
determines what the cutoff would be before the holier-than-thou stop
looking down their nose?

Cadillac = burn in hell
Yugo = angels sing
Mercedes = tortured for eternity
Hyundai = right hand of god

Seems a bit of a silly argument to me...

MH
Post by unknown
You know something guys and gals, I will be the first to admit it...
This troll ventured in here, spawned some BS nonsense to get a rise
out of us and each and every one of us bit the bait.
Congrats to the troll for getting what they wanted.
PeterD
2008-09-24 14:00:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by MH
Heh, at least it generated some activity in the group. :-)
Well, that you did.
Post by MH
If I believed in Hell (I don't - I find the idea of God's personal
torture chamber offensive), owning a Ferrari would be a nice way to get
there. But that's not really a 'luxury' car, is it? It's a sports car.
Oh well, a Bentley would be as nice. ;-) Truly, what sort of
'creator' is going to hold my success against me?
Though I admit to some confusion on the relationship of owning a nice
car vs. helping the unfortunate. You're not allowed to do both?
Which I suspect you'll find that many do.
Post by MH
Maybe
we need to define 'luxury' - is there a spending cap? And who
determines what the cutoff would be before the holier-than-thou stop
looking down their nose?
Cadillac = burn in hell
Before or after?
Post by MH
Yugo = angels sing
Car stops running.
Post by MH
Mercedes = tortured for eternity
True and you don't even have to die for this result.
Post by MH
Hyundai = right hand of god
Immediate high amputation recommended...
Hummer H1: Hey you're driving the Jesus car!
Post by MH
Seems a bit of a silly argument to me...
MH
Post by unknown
You know something guys and gals, I will be the first to admit it...
This troll ventured in here, spawned some BS nonsense to get a rise
out of us and each and every one of us bit the bait.
Congrats to the troll for getting what they wanted.
M_P
2008-09-24 14:40:55 UTC
Permalink
[...]  Truly, what sort of
'creator' is going to hold my success against me?
It's not your success that's in question, but your use of its fruits.
Though I admit to some confusion on the relationship of owning a nice
car vs. helping the unfortunate.  You're not allowed to do both?
Every dollar spent on a car is a dollar unavailable for helping the
unfortunate.
Maybe
we need to define 'luxury' - is there a spending cap?  And who
determines what the cutoff would be
The Creator does ... look to Him and His Word for guidance.
before the holier-than-thou stop
looking down their nose?
Red herring. It's not *my* opinion you need to worry about.
Cadillac = burn in hell
Yugo = angels sing
Mercedes = tortured for eternity
Hyundai = right hand of god
Seems a bit of a silly argument to me...
It's an argument entirely of your own construction.
Low Life #3
2008-09-24 18:05:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by MH
Though I admit to some confusion on the relationship of owning a nice
car vs. helping the unfortunate. You're not allowed to do both?
Every dollar spent on a car is a dollar unavailable for helping the
unfortunate.

but you ignore the benefit that my driving a gleaming Porsche 911 cabrio has
on the less fortunate, namely it gives the blighters something to aspire to.
a reason to get out of bed at 06:00 on a dreary, gray, rainy morning and
head off to work along with untold millions here in Europe. a reason to
learn to live within ones means and put aside a bit for whatever you want
later, not today, later. a reason to educate themselves on depreciation of
automobiles and how buying a good used automobile can be a far better
investment than a new automobile.

and you assume that a Euro given to Porsche is somehow sucked into a
black-hole and ceases to exist. that is faulty reasoning. the Euro given
to Porsche, or Guinness, goes on to create more Euros. time to get out
those economics books.
M_P
2008-09-24 21:58:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by M_P
Post by MH
Though I admit to some confusion on the relationship of owning a nice
car vs. helping the unfortunate. You're not allowed to do both?
Every dollar spent on a car is a dollar unavailable for helping the
unfortunate.
but you ignore the benefit that my driving a gleaming Porsche 911 cabrio has
on the less fortunate, namely it gives the blighters something to aspire to. [...]
You go ahead and try to sell that to your Creator.
Post by M_P
and you assume that a Euro given to Porsche is somehow sucked into a
black-hole and ceases to exist.  that is faulty reasoning.  the Euro given
to Porsche, or Guinness,  goes on to create more Euros.  time to get out
those economics books.
Investment in productive capacity creates more euros. What does a
Porsche produce? (I know what a Guinness produces, and it doesn't
count.)
MH
2008-09-24 18:30:38 UTC
Permalink
Believe me, I in no way worry or even care about what you think.

However, based on your arguments, you seem to believe that you have a
better understanding of what 'the creator's' opinion is than everyone
else in this group. Or given my prior experience with zealots, better
than anyone else, period.

I gave up religion because of people exactly like you. All you've done
here is reinforce that decision.

MH
Post by M_P
Red herring. It's not *my* opinion you need to worry about.
Post by MH
Cadillac = burn in hell
Yugo = angels sing
Mercedes = tortured for eternity
Hyundai = right hand of god
Seems a bit of a silly argument to me...
It's an argument entirely of your own construction.
M_P
2008-09-25 14:36:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by MH
Believe me, I in no way worry or even care about what you think.
As I said: "Red herring. It's not *my* opinion you need to worry
about."
Post by MH
However, based on your arguments, you seem to believe that you have a
better understanding of what 'the creator's' opinion is than everyone
else in this group.
Sorry, I'm a round peg that doesn't fit your square-hole stereotype;
I'm entirely open to hearing about logical or factual flaws in what I
say ... but most of what I've heard in these groups is just ad
hominems like those you posted below.
Post by MH
Or given my prior experience with zealots, better
than anyone else, period.
I gave up religion because of people exactly like you.  All you've done
here is reinforce that decision.
So if most particle physicists were personally objectionable, you'd
disbelieve in quarks? Pretty shaky logic there.
Post by MH
MH
Post by M_P
Red herring. It's not *my* opinion you need to worry about.
Post by MH
Cadillac = burn in hell
Yugo = angels sing
Mercedes = tortured for eternity
Hyundai = right hand of god
Seems a bit of a silly argument to me...
It's an argument entirely of your own construction.
Paul Duffin
2008-09-27 08:18:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by MH
Cadillac = burn in hell
Yugo = angels sing
Mercedes = tortured for eternity
Hyundai = right hand of god
Seems a bit of a silly argument to me...
MH
...and the award for Best Answer goes to....

-Paul
--
http://www.mc-pd.co.uk/
Vanity, vanity, vanity.... oh, and some a.a.f. stuff.
Now including the 'Toys' page. Send me your pics!
M_P
2008-09-29 15:33:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by Paul Duffin
Post by MH
Cadillac = burn in hell
Yugo = angels sing
Mercedes = tortured for eternity
Hyundai = right hand of god
Seems a bit of a silly argument to me...
MH
...and the award for Best Answer goes to....
A straw-man argument was the best answer? How revealing.
Paul Duffin
2008-09-29 22:11:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by Paul Duffin
Post by MH
Cadillac = burn in hell
Yugo = angels sing
Mercedes = tortured for eternity
Hyundai = right hand of god
Seems a bit of a silly argument to me...
MH
...and the award for Best Answer goes to....
A straw-man argument was the best answer? How revealing.
Quite.

Your initial point was mildly provocative and drew an entertaining knee-jerk
from the 'all rich people are so because they are talented, all poor people
are so because they are lazy' brigade but your attempts to follow up have
been formulaic and uninspiring to say the least; so MH's response was indeed
the best, combining humor with a more serious point - which I suspect was
over your head.

In short: nice try, poor follow-through.

All possession is indeed (at its simplest) theft, but how about a little
perspective? the odd 'luxury' car here and there is sadly dwarfed by the
ongoing daily atrocities in the name (various apply) of 'god' that those
such as you promote. Ultimate poverty is to be denied life itself, and you
religious types deny that of others so very often - such that religion is
and always has been one of the greatest causes of death and suffering.

You put forward only school-boy philosophy and cannot build a logical
argument upon it, so resort to faux-intellectual comments such as 'A
straw-man argument was the best answer? How revealing'. All you are
achieving is to reveal yourself.



-Paul
--
http://www.mc-pd.co.uk/
Vanity, vanity, vanity.... oh, and some a.a.f. stuff.
Now including the 'Toys' page. Send me your pics!
M_P
2008-09-30 17:09:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by Paul Duffin
Post by M_P
Post by Paul Duffin
Post by MH
Cadillac = burn in hell
Yugo = angels sing
Mercedes = tortured for eternity
Hyundai = right hand of god
Seems a bit of a silly argument to me...
MH
...and the award for Best Answer goes to....
A straw-man argument was the best answer? How revealing.
Quite.
Your initial point was mildly provocative and drew an entertaining knee-jerk
from the 'all rich people are so because they are talented, all poor people
are so because they are lazy' brigade but your attempts to follow up have
been formulaic and uninspiring to say the least;
Entertainment was never my goal.
Post by Paul Duffin
so MH's response was indeed
the best, combining humor with a more serious point - which I suspect was
over your head.
In short: nice try, poor follow-through.
All possession is indeed (at its simplest) theft,
No, failure to give is not the same as taking.
Post by Paul Duffin
but how about a little
perspective? the odd 'luxury' car here and there is sadly dwarfed by the
ongoing daily atrocities in the name (various apply) of 'god' that those
such as you promote. Ultimate poverty is to be denied life itself, and you
religious types
Association fallacy.
Post by Paul Duffin
deny that of others so very often - such that religion is
and always has been one of the greatest causes of death and suffering.
I'm against that too ... and if there was an alt.jihad I'd post to it.
Post by Paul Duffin
You put forward only school-boy philosophy and cannot build a logical
argument upon it,
Why do I need to 'build' anything?
Post by Paul Duffin
so resort to faux-intellectual comments such as 'A
straw-man argument was the best answer? How revealing'. All you are
achieving is to reveal yourself.
As someone who recognizes straw-man arguments and understands their
invalidity.
Paul Duffin
2008-09-30 19:16:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by M_P
Post by Paul Duffin
All possession is indeed (at its simplest) theft,
No, failure to give is not the same as taking.
Study much history? I was paraphrasing Marx. You know, the chap credited
with laying down the fundamental principles of Communism? Maybe not. You
may be interested to know that he also said that "religion is the opiate of
the masses"... I'd suggest you read up on him.
Post by M_P
Post by Paul Duffin
but how about a little
perspective? the odd 'luxury' car here and there is sadly dwarfed by the
ongoing daily atrocities in the name (various apply) of 'god' that those
such as you promote. Ultimate poverty is to be denied life itself, and you
religious types
Association fallacy.
Study much history?
Post by M_P
Post by Paul Duffin
deny that of others so very often - such that religion is
and always has been one of the greatest causes of death and suffering.
I'm against that too ... and if there was an alt.jihad I'd post to it.
Yeah... good idea. Don't forget to give them your address - that should be
sufficient to prove my previous point.
Post by M_P
Post by Paul Duffin
You put forward only school-boy philosophy and cannot build a logical
argument upon it,
Why do I need to 'build' anything?
Ok, 'debate 101': try to put forward an argument that holds water and be
prepared to build upon it to support your contentions and to refute
nay-sayers...

...Alternatively, just say stuff like "As someone who recognizes straw-man
arguments and understands their invalidity" - its a jolly sight easier than
having to propose a clear and logical premise, is't it?

Come on - *do* try harder, you haven't managed to upset the local neo-cons
for days.


-Paul
--
http://www.mc-pd.co.uk/
Vanity, vanity, vanity.... oh, and some a.a.f. stuff.
Now including the 'Toys' page. Send me your pics!
M_P
2008-09-30 21:30:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by Paul Duffin
Post by M_P
Post by Paul Duffin
All possession is indeed (at its simplest) theft,
No, failure to give is not the same as taking.
Study much history? I was paraphrasing Marx.
Bully for you. It's still false.
Post by Paul Duffin
You know, the chap credited
with laying down the fundamental principles of Communism?  Maybe not. You
may be interested to know that he also said that "religion is the opiate of
the masses"...  I'd suggest you read up on him.
Post by M_P
Post by Paul Duffin
but how about a little
perspective? the odd 'luxury' car here and there is sadly dwarfed by the
ongoing daily atrocities in the name (various apply) of 'god' that those
such as you promote. Ultimate poverty is to be denied life itself, and you
religious types
Association fallacy.
Study much history?
The historical accuracy, or lack thereof, of your claim about
"religious types" is irrelevant to the fact that you committed an
association fallacy. I'd suggest you read up on those.
Post by Paul Duffin
Post by M_P
Post by Paul Duffin
deny that of others so very often - such that religion is
and always has been one of the greatest causes of death and suffering.
I'm against that too ... and if there was an alt.jihad I'd post to it.
Yeah... good idea. Don't forget to give them your address - that should be
sufficient to prove my previous point.
Not as you attempted to apply it to me, it wouldn't.
Post by Paul Duffin
Post by M_P
Post by Paul Duffin
You put forward only school-boy philosophy and cannot build a logical
argument upon it,
Why do I need to 'build' anything?
Ok, 'debate 101': try to put forward an argument that holds water and be
prepared to build upon it to support your contentions and to refute
nay-sayers...
Which nay-sayers have I failed to refute?
Post by Paul Duffin
...Alternatively, just say stuff like "As someone who recognizes straw-man
arguments and understands their invalidity"
Should I pretend that straw-man arguments are valid?
Post by Paul Duffin
- its a jolly sight easier than
having to  propose a clear and logical premise, is't it?
The responses to my initial post didn't indicate any confusion about
my premises.
Post by Paul Duffin
Come on - *do* try harder, you haven't managed to upset the local neo-cons
for days.
I've done all the "upsetting" I intended to do, thanks.
Paul Duffin
2008-09-30 22:01:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by M_P
I've done all the "upsetting" I intended to do, thanks.
Bye then!.

Better luck next time.


Over and out.
--
http://www.mc-pd.co.uk/
Vanity, vanity, vanity.... oh, and some a.a.f. stuff.
Now including the 'Toys' page. Send me your pics!
MH
2008-10-01 05:28:31 UTC
Permalink
Classic troll.

I like debate, I even like discussing politics and religion, as long as
everyone stays reasonable and coherent.

This 'creator' is apparently pretty judgmental and has some sort of
spending cap on how well someone lives. Of course, s/he never actually
defines that, other than in nebulous and non-specific terms, thus
encouraging further debate. Pointless debate, because s/he never
actually responds with facts.

I'm truly interested - what's the spending cap? How good a life is "too
good" before the 'creator' gets miffed? I know of billionaires who give
hundreds of millions to charity, but they remain billionaires; they no
doubt drive 'expensive' (a relative term) cars, live in expensive homes.
Are they condemned simply because the 'creator' thinks they should
give away all of their wealth, live in a hut and drive a Prius?

I don't expect any sort of real answer, based on the vague and circular
responses so far....

If and when I ever stand before a creator - and I don't think I will,
btw (He may kill me out of hand but I doubt I'll get any sort of
audience)- if that happens I have nothing to hide and am certainly not
ashamed of my car, my home, or anything else. If He is, then He doesn't
deserve any respect.

Last word.

MH

PS Hi Paul! ;-)
Post by Paul Duffin
Post by M_P
I've done all the "upsetting" I intended to do, thanks.
Bye then!.
Better luck next time.
Over and out.
PeterD
2008-10-01 13:21:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by MH
Classic troll.
I like debate, I even like discussing politics and religion, as long as
everyone stays reasonable and coherent.
This 'creator' is apparently pretty judgmental and has some sort of
spending cap on how well someone lives.
I have to wonder if this 'creator' also lives by what he demands from
others? Bet not...
Post by MH
Of course, s/he never actually
defines that, other than in nebulous and non-specific terms, thus
encouraging further debate. Pointless debate, because s/he never
actually responds with facts.
Well, one must take allowances for the fact that these 'creators' are
all mythical beings!
Post by MH
I'm truly interested - what's the spending cap?
Just don't spend more than your favorite 'creator'. You're safe then.
Post by MH
How good a life is "too
good" before the 'creator' gets miffed? I know of billionaires who give
hundreds of millions to charity, but they remain billionaires; they no
doubt drive 'expensive' (a relative term) cars, live in expensive homes.
Are they condemned simply because the 'creator' thinks they should
give away all of their wealth, live in a hut and drive a Prius?
Damned right. And for a start, they should be giving at least half of
it to me.
Post by MH
I don't expect any sort of real answer, based on the vague and circular
responses so far....
Mythology is such a wonderful endevor. For instance, you can use
virtually any argument!
Post by MH
If and when I ever stand before a creator - and I don't think I will,
btw (He may kill me out of hand but I doubt I'll get any sort of
audience)-
Personally, I'd probalby fall in the 'phuck you' group!
Post by MH
if that happens I have nothing to hide and am certainly not
ashamed of my car, my home, or anything else. If He is, then He doesn't
deserve any respect.
Doesn't get any respect from me at all, regardless of how he feels
about me!
Post by MH
Last word.
MH
PS Hi Paul! ;-)
M_P
2008-10-01 18:39:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by MH
Classic troll.
I like debate, I even like discussing politics and religion, as long as
everyone stays reasonable and coherent.
This 'creator' is apparently pretty judgmental
Why shouldn't He be, being the Creator?
Post by MH
and has some sort of
spending cap on how well someone lives.  Of course, s/he never actually
defines that, other than in nebulous and non-specific terms, thus
encouraging further debate.  Pointless debate, because s/he never
actually responds with facts.
I'm truly interested - what's the spending cap?
Truly interested in learning the answer (which would imply doing one's
own investigation) ... or truly interested in pretending that one can
conclude that no such thing as excessive luxury exists because I
haven't provided a specific figure?
Post by MH
[...] If and when I ever stand before a creator - and I don't think I will,
btw (He may kill me out of hand but I doubt I'll get any sort of
audience)- if that happens I have nothing to hide and am certainly not
ashamed of my car, my home, or anything else.  If He is, then He doesn't
deserve any respect.
Your Creator deserves no respect because His ideas differ from those
of His creature? You can't say that with a straight face while taking
seriously (if only for purpose of discussion) the existence of a
Creator. And if you can't take seriously (if only for purpose of
discussion) the existence of a Creator, why are you bothering to talk
with -- or about -- what I've posted?
PeterD
2008-10-01 21:05:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by M_P
Post by MH
Classic troll.
I like debate, I even like discussing politics and religion, as long as
everyone stays reasonable and coherent.
This 'creator' is apparently pretty judgmental
Why shouldn't He be, being the Creator?
Well, who died and made him creator?
unknown
2008-10-02 01:13:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by PeterD
Post by M_P
Post by MH
Classic troll.
I like debate, I even like discussing politics and religion, as long as
everyone stays reasonable and coherent.
This 'creator' is apparently pretty judgmental
Why shouldn't He be, being the Creator?
Well, who died and made him creator?
More to the point, who or what created the creator? This is about as
lame as the Big Bang theory. First there is nothing, then it explodes?
Yeah.. Right...
PeterD
2008-10-02 13:20:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by unknown
Post by PeterD
Post by M_P
Post by MH
Classic troll.
I like debate, I even like discussing politics and religion, as long as
everyone stays reasonable and coherent.
This 'creator' is apparently pretty judgmental
Why shouldn't He be, being the Creator?
Well, who died and made him creator?
More to the point, who or what created the creator? This is about as
lame as the Big Bang theory. First there is nothing, then it explodes?
Yeah.. Right...
I personally love the "He just always existed". I'm amazed at the
following behind a monotheistic religion; this creator character must
be one lonely guy.

But then again, he probably has the best car collection there ever
was! Just think, when cars die, do they go to hell? No way, off to
heaven where they go into the creator's collection.
unknown
2008-10-02 16:38:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by PeterD
I personally love the "He just always existed". I'm amazed at the
following behind a monotheistic religion; this creator character must
be one lonely guy.
But then again, he probably has the best car collection there ever
was! Just think, when cars die, do they go to hell? No way, off to
heaven where they go into the creator's collection.
Can you imagine just how many mosquito's, deer, rabbits, etc. are up
in this supposed heaven? I mean, is it now heaven or hell if you can't
go anywhere or do anything without 6 billion bugs trying to eat you?
After all, their idea of heaven is probably lots of warm bodies to
chomp on! <grin>

Let me guess, only humans are good enough for heaven..but if that's
the case, why do all dogs go to heaven even the mean ones?

Religinuts.. they are so amusing at times...
Low Life #3
2008-10-04 10:04:16 UTC
Permalink
"PeterD" <***@hipson.net> wrote in message news:***@4ax.com...

: But then again, he probably has the best car collection there ever
: was! Just think, when cars die, do they go to hell? No way, off to
: heaven where they go into the creator's collection.

He/She has James Dean's Porsche Spyder?
PeterD
2008-10-04 12:40:08 UTC
Permalink
On Sat, 4 Oct 2008 12:04:16 +0200, "Low Life #3"
Post by Low Life #3
: But then again, he probably has the best car collection there ever
: was! Just think, when cars die, do they go to hell? No way, off to
: heaven where they go into the creator's collection.
He/She has James Dean's Porsche Spyder?
Of course it is in the collection, but Dean was sent straight to hell
just because he owned it... The fact he was killed by a negligent
driver didn't outweigh the penality of owning an expensive car.
Low Life #3
2008-10-04 17:24:40 UTC
Permalink
"PeterD" <***@hipson.net> wrote in message news:***@4ax.com...
: On Sat, 4 Oct 2008 12:04:16 +0200, "Low Life #3"
: <***@hotmail.com> wrote:
:
: >"PeterD" <***@hipson.net> wrote in message
: >news:***@4ax.com...
: >
: >: But then again, he probably has the best car collection there ever
: >: was! Just think, when cars die, do they go to hell? No way, off to
: >: heaven where they go into the creator's collection.
: >
: >He/She has James Dean's Porsche Spyder?
: >
:
:
: Of course it is in the collection, but Dean was sent straight to hell
: just because he owned it... The fact he was killed by a negligent
: driver didn't outweigh the penality of owning an expensive car.

Damned for all eternity no doubt about it.

I wonder. I own a Cartier *Tank* wrist watch (a gift from my good wife) but
mostly wear a freebie watch from Microsoft (because when it breaks I'll
throw it away)... Am I doubly doomed?

And what about my house in Spain? We have two houses and somewhere there is
a person sleeping in a cardboard box under an overpass. Doomed again

I don't wear expensive shoes. And I don't sport any tattoos or *piercing*.
I have a couple of business suites, a rather large collection of bow-ties
and cravats, but I mostly wear middle-range stuff. I am certainly not a
purchaser of $80 polo shirts with a *smart* logo.

I do home repairs to my level of competence. I don't mind getting my hands
dirty, never have.
M_P
2008-10-06 18:05:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by Low Life #3
: >: But then again, he probably has the best car collection there ever
: >: was! Just think, when cars die, do they go to hell? No way, off to
: >: heaven where they go into the creator's collection.
: >
: >He/She has James Dean's Porsche Spyder?
: Of course it is in the collection, but Dean was sent straight to hell
: just because he owned it... The fact he was killed by a negligent
: driver didn't outweigh the penality of owning an expensive car.
Damned for all eternity no doubt about it.
I wonder.  I own a Cartier *Tank* wrist watch (a gift from my good wife) but
mostly wear a freebie watch from Microsoft (because when it breaks I'll
throw it away)... Am I doubly doomed?
And what about my house in Spain? We have two houses and somewhere there is
a person sleeping in a cardboard box under an overpass.  Doomed again
I'm hearing a lot of whistling past the graveyard around here.
M_P
2008-10-01 18:24:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by Paul Duffin
Post by M_P
Post by Paul Duffin
Post by M_P
Post by Paul Duffin
All possession is indeed (at its simplest) theft,
No, failure to give is not the same as taking.
Study much history? I was paraphrasing Marx.
Bully for you. It's still false.
Post by Paul Duffin
You know, the chap credited
with laying down the fundamental principles of Communism? Maybe not. You
may be interested to know that he also said that "religion is the opiate of
the masses"... I'd suggest you read up on him.
Post by M_P
Post by Paul Duffin
but how about a little
perspective? the odd 'luxury' car here and there is sadly dwarfed by the
ongoing daily atrocities in the name (various apply) of 'god' that those
such as you promote. Ultimate poverty is to be denied life itself, and you
religious types
Association fallacy.
Study much history?
The historical accuracy, or lack thereof, of your claim about
"religious types" is irrelevant to the fact that you committed an
association fallacy. I'd suggest you read up on those.
Post by Paul Duffin
Post by M_P
Post by Paul Duffin
deny that of others so very often - such that religion is
and always has been one of the greatest causes of death and suffering.
I'm against that too ... and if there was an alt.jihad I'd post to it.
Yeah... good idea. Don't forget to give them your address - that should be
sufficient to prove my previous point.
Not as you attempted to apply it to me, it wouldn't.
Post by Paul Duffin
Post by M_P
Post by Paul Duffin
You put forward only school-boy philosophy and cannot build a logical
argument upon it,
Why do I need to 'build' anything?
Ok, 'debate 101': try to put forward an argument that holds water and be
prepared to build upon it to support your contentions and to refute
nay-sayers...
Which nay-sayers have I failed to refute?
Post by Paul Duffin
...Alternatively, just say stuff like "As someone who recognizes straw-man
arguments and understands their invalidity"
Should I pretend that straw-man arguments are valid?
Post by Paul Duffin
- its a jolly sight easier than
having to propose a clear and logical premise, is't it?
The responses to my initial post didn't indicate any confusion about
my premises.
Post by Paul Duffin
Come on - *do* try harder, you haven't managed to upset the local neo-cons
for days.
I've done all the "upsetting" I intended to do, thanks.
Bye then!.
Oh, I didn't say I was done posting.
Post by Paul Duffin
Better luck next time.
I'm not displeased with how this turned out ... but thanks for the
thought.
Post by Paul Duffin
Over and out.
FernandoAbreu
2008-09-24 13:21:26 UTC
Permalink
amen
Post by unknown
You know something guys and gals, I will be the first to admit it...
This troll ventured in here, spawned some BS nonsense to get a rise
out of us and each and every one of us bit the bait.
Congrats to the troll for getting what they wanted.
rajiv
2008-09-24 16:42:02 UTC
Permalink
I thought I could squeak past the Pearly Gates by donating the Jag to
charity upon my demise. Now I find out its no longer made in England, but
in India by a bunch of Hindus!! He's really going to be mad about that. My
only hope is that the gates of the netherworld are going to be so jammed up
with TV preachers and self righteous hypocrites that they will have no
choice but to give me a golden harp. ( Or a wooden one, if the same concern
exists up there over luxury items)
Post by M_P
When you leave this earth and your expensive car behind to stand
before your Creator, how will you explain to Him why you spent so much
money on a car in the face of so many others' unmet basic needs?
M_P
2008-09-24 20:00:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by rajiv
I thought I could squeak past the Pearly Gates by donating the Jag to
charity upon my demise.
Not much of a sacrifice at that point.
Post by rajiv
Now I find out its no longer made in England, but
in India by a bunch of Hindus!!  He's really going to be mad about that.
What makes you think so? God loves Hindus.
Post by rajiv
My
only hope is that the gates of the netherworld are going to be so jammed up
with TV preachers and self righteous hypocrites that they will have no
choice but to give me a golden harp.  
Only a metaphor for the splendor of Heaven.
Post by rajiv
( Or a wooden one, if the same concern
exists up there over luxury items)
LOL!
Post by rajiv
Post by M_P
When you leave this earth and your expensive car behind to stand
before your Creator, how will you explain to Him why you spent so much
money on a car in the face of so many others' unmet basic needs?
PeterD
2008-09-24 22:21:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by M_P
Post by rajiv
I thought I could squeak past the Pearly Gates by donating the Jag to
charity upon my demise.
Not much of a sacrifice at that point.
Post by rajiv
Now I find out its no longer made in England, but
in India by a bunch of Hindus!!  He's really going to be mad about that.
What makes you think so? God loves Hindus.
God loves Hindus, but hates Jag lovers? Oh, crap, we're phucked...
M_P
2008-09-25 14:37:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by PeterD
Post by M_P
Post by rajiv
I thought I could squeak past the Pearly Gates by donating the Jag to
charity upon my demise.
Not much of a sacrifice at that point.
Post by rajiv
Now I find out its no longer made in England, but
in India by a bunch of Hindus!!  He's really going to be mad about that.
What makes you think so? God loves Hindus.
God loves Hindus, but hates Jag lovers? Oh, crap, we're phucked...
God doesn't hate anyone ... but he hates certain behaviors.
MH
2008-09-25 17:15:17 UTC
Permalink
So you seem to be the expert. Which god, and which behaviours?
Post by M_P
God doesn't hate anyone ... but he hates certain behaviors.
Happy Trails
2008-09-24 21:30:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by rajiv
I thought I could squeak past the Pearly Gates by donating the Jag to
charity upon my demise. Now I find out its no longer made in England, but
in India by a bunch of Hindus!! He's really going to be mad about that. My
only hope is that the gates of the netherworld are going to be so jammed up
with TV preachers and self righteous hypocrites that they will have no
choice but to give me a golden harp. ( Or a wooden one, if the same concern
exists up there over luxury items)
ROTFLMAO !

Way to go Rajiv.

For such humorous, witty, tongue-in-cheek fun to be posted at all here
is great after all the absolute nonsense in this thread.

For it to be posted by someone who's mother tongue is not necessarily
English, and who may very well be an Indian Hindu as well, is very
refreshing.

I'm still laughing; you have made my day.
unknown
2008-09-25 04:50:58 UTC
Permalink
Fun thought: If luxry is evil, why does the Pope drive around in the
most expensive vehicles, and the previous pope used to ride in the
back of a Ferrari Mondial? In fact, why is it that the church would
have you tithe all your extra money and tell you that you need nothing
but the barest of essentials while the church rakes in millions? When
someone can figure out why some idiot would pay $50,000+ to kiss the
multi-million dollar rings upon the Popes hands and actually think
this moron is close to saint hood I'll be surprised.

Religion is nothing more than an international for-profit business and
it ought to be taxed as one. It uses fear of the unknown the same way
politicians are currently using fear to take away rights and extort
further taxes.

As for your 'creator', there are what? 180+ Gods out there that are
worshipped, not counting the variety of spirits and such. When you
figure out why you dismiss all those other 'creators' then you can see
why I dismiss yours.
PeterD
2008-09-25 13:02:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by unknown
Fun thought: If luxry is evil, why does the Pope drive around in the
most expensive vehicles, and the previous pope used to ride in the
back of a Ferrari Mondial? In fact, why is it that the church would
have you tithe all your extra money and tell you that you need nothing
but the barest of essentials while the church rakes in millions? When
someone can figure out why some idiot would pay $50,000+ to kiss the
multi-million dollar rings upon the Popes hands and actually think
this moron is close to saint hood I'll be surprised.
Religion is nothing more than an international for-profit business and
it ought to be taxed as one. It uses fear of the unknown the same way
politicians are currently using fear to take away rights and extort
further taxes.
As for your 'creator', there are what? 180+ Gods out there that are
worshipped, not counting the variety of spirits and such. When you
figure out why you dismiss all those other 'creators' then you can see
why I dismiss yours.
Well said... <s> Somewhat "my god can whip your god..."
M_P
2008-09-25 14:41:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by unknown
Fun thought: If luxry is evil, why does the Pope drive around in the
most expensive vehicles, and the previous pope used to ride in the
back of a Ferrari Mondial?  In fact, why is it that the church would
have you tithe all your extra money and tell you that you need nothing
but the barest of essentials while the church rakes in millions?  When
someone can figure out why some idiot would pay $50,000+ to kiss the
multi-million dollar rings upon the Popes hands and actually think
this moron is close to saint hood I'll be surprised.  
Religion is nothing more than an international for-profit business and
it ought to be taxed as one. It uses fear of the unknown the same way
politicians are currently using fear to take away rights and extort
further taxes.
Straw man. Who said anything about "religion"? I asked about the
Creator, not any human institution that claims to speak and act in His
name.
Post by unknown
As for your 'creator', there are what? 180+ Gods out there that are
worshipped, not counting the variety of spirits and such.  When you
figure out why you dismiss all those other 'creators' then you can see
why I dismiss yours.
So your position is that my question was on par with asking what Santa
Claus would think about your car purchase ... but I don't think you'd
have spent nearly as much time arguing about that question.
unknown
2008-09-25 15:18:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by M_P
Post by unknown
As for your 'creator', there are what? 180+ Gods out there that are
worshipped, not counting the variety of spirits and such.  When you
figure out why you dismiss all those other 'creators' then you can see
why I dismiss yours.
So your position is that my question was on par with asking what Santa
Claus would think about your car purchase ... but I don't think you'd
have spent nearly as much time arguing about that question.
No kidding. Santa, if he existed, would have brought the car! :)
Thomas Andersson
2008-09-25 19:18:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by unknown
No kidding. Santa, if he existed, would have brought the car! :)
Santa doesn't exist? *tears welling up from eyes*

Best Wishes
Thomas
unknown
2008-09-25 19:35:24 UTC
Permalink
On Thu, 25 Sep 2008 21:18:10 +0200, "Thomas Andersson"
Post by Thomas Andersson
Post by unknown
No kidding. Santa, if he existed, would have brought the car! :)
Santa doesn't exist? *tears welling up from eyes*
When you were young your parents taught you lots of things.

They taught you about the Easter Bunny. Turned out that was a lie.
They taught you about Santa Clause. Yep, another lie. "He knows when
yuo sleep, he knows when you are awake, he knows if you are bad or
good and he rewards you for being good or punishes you (coal) for
being bad" Gee, sounds a lot like God doesn't it?

So here are a few things that they lied to you about, but I guess
people can't give up everything even when they hit the age of reason.
Face it, there is no god either but that won't keep people from lying
to themselves and others for eons to come. After all, our parents
COULDN'T have lied to us about everything... could they?
Thomas Andersson
2008-09-25 22:13:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by unknown
Post by Thomas Andersson
Santa doesn't exist? *tears welling up from eyes*
When you were young your parents taught you lots of things.
They taught you about the Easter Bunny. Turned out that was a lie.
They taught you about Santa Clause. Yep, another lie. "He knows when
yuo sleep, he knows when you are awake, he knows if you are bad or
good and he rewards you for being good or punishes you (coal) for
being bad" Gee, sounds a lot like God doesn't it?
Both pictured as old men with large white beards, what if Santa IS God?
Venger
2008-09-26 02:58:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by M_P
When you leave this earth and your expensive car behind to stand
before your Creator, how will you explain to Him why you spent so much
money on a car in the face of so many others' unmet basic needs?
Why would I explain to an omnipotent being how *I* left many with unmet
needs?

Thread over.

Venger
DST
2008-09-26 03:16:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by Venger
Post by M_P
When you leave this earth and your expensive car behind to stand
before your Creator, how will you explain to Him why you spent so much
money on a car in the face of so many others' unmet basic needs?
Why would I explain to an omnipotent being how *I* left many with unmet
needs?
Thread over.
Venger
Thread over?

Amen, brother!
PeterD
2008-09-26 12:36:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by Venger
Post by M_P
When you leave this earth and your expensive car behind to stand
before your Creator, how will you explain to Him why you spent so much
money on a car in the face of so many others' unmet basic needs?
Why would I explain to an omnipotent being how *I* left many with unmet
needs?
Thread over.
Venger
Damnit... Stop using logic when referring to religion. Logic is not
allowed!
M_P
2008-09-26 14:46:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by Venger
Post by M_P
When you leave this earth and your expensive car behind to stand
before your Creator, how will you explain to Him why you spent so much
money on a car in the face of so many others' unmet basic needs?
Why would I explain to an omnipotent being how *I* left many with unmet
needs?
Because He charged you and I with doing what we could with the
resources He provided to meet those needs.
unknown
2008-09-26 15:07:08 UTC
Permalink
On Fri, 26 Sep 2008 07:46:51 -0700 (PDT), M_P <***@rocketmail.com>
wrote:
ers' unmet basic needs?
Post by M_P
Post by Venger
Why would I explain to an omnipotent being how *I* left many with unmet
needs?
Because He charged you and I with doing what we could with the
resources He provided to meet those needs.
When did he do this? When did this non-existant being wander down and
say "Hey, I need you to take care of these things." ????

How people can sit back and worship a masochistic diety who takes such
great pleasure in causing pain and strife and who even has a ball
torturing his own son to death for no friggen reason... Yeah buddy,
let me get in on some of that worship!

It's like the sign they had out here at a church for a while. "Love
God! Fear God!" Am I to love him or fear him? I sure as hell don't
usually love things I fear...

Religinuts just don't have any reasonable logic or reasoning skills.
M_P
2008-09-26 16:14:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by M_P
ers' unmet basic needs?
Post by M_P
Post by Venger
Why would I explain to an omnipotent being how *I* left many with unmet
needs?
Because He charged you and I with doing what we could with the
resources He provided to meet those needs.
When did he do this? When did this non-existant being [...]
If that's true, you've got nothing to worry about ... and yet (as I've
noted) you spend a lot more time and emotional energy on this than you
would if I'd said Santa Claus charged you and I with doing what we
could to meet those needs. I wonder if the reason is that in the Santa
Claus scenario you wouldn't have to try to convince yourself?
PeterD
2008-09-26 16:31:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by M_P
Post by Venger
Post by M_P
When you leave this earth and your expensive car behind to stand
before your Creator, how will you explain to Him why you spent so much
money on a car in the face of so many others' unmet basic needs?
Why would I explain to an omnipotent being how *I* left many with unmet
needs?
Because He charged you and I with doing what we could with the
resources He provided to meet those needs.
Well, that is the first mistake, bad management.

Second mistake is trying to get others to do what you can do better.
M_P
2008-09-26 16:55:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by PeterD
Post by M_P
Post by Venger
Post by M_P
When you leave this earth and your expensive car behind to stand
before your Creator, how will you explain to Him why you spent so much
money on a car in the face of so many others' unmet basic needs?
Why would I explain to an omnipotent being how *I* left many with unmet
needs?
Because He charged you and I with doing what we could with the
resources He provided to meet those needs.
Well, that is the first mistake, bad management.
Second mistake is trying to get others to do what you can do better.
Which is why I should always make my kids' beds?
PeterD
2008-09-26 22:39:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by M_P
Post by PeterD
Post by M_P
Post by Venger
Post by M_P
When you leave this earth and your expensive car behind to stand
before your Creator, how will you explain to Him why you spent so much
money on a car in the face of so many others' unmet basic needs?
Why would I explain to an omnipotent being how *I* left many with unmet
needs?
Because He charged you and I with doing what we could with the
resources He provided to meet those needs.
Well, that is the first mistake, bad management.
Second mistake is trying to get others to do what you can do better.
Which is why I should always make my kids' beds?
And clean their room? No one told you about that before you had the
kids, did they? Especially your parents!

Our daughters learned, and then later asked... We carefully told them
that we'd decided to not say a word, and let 'em learn the hard way!
M_P
2008-09-29 15:31:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by PeterD
Post by M_P
Post by PeterD
Post by M_P
Post by Venger
Post by M_P
When you leave this earth and your expensive car behind to stand
before your Creator, how will you explain to Him why you spent so much
money on a car in the face of so many others' unmet basic needs?
Why would I explain to an omnipotent being how *I* left many with unmet
needs?
Because He charged you and I with doing what we could with the
resources He provided to meet those needs.
Well, that is the first mistake, bad management.
Second mistake is trying to get others to do what you can do better.
Which is why I should always make my kids' beds?
And clean their room? No one told you about that before you had the
kids, did they?
Er ... my question was rhetorical. The point is that it's NOT always a
mistake to try to get others to do what one can do better oneself.
Post by PeterD
Especially your parents!
Our daughters learned, and then later asked... We carefully told them
that we'd decided to not say a word, and let 'em learn the hard way!
Bert Kanters
2008-09-27 00:37:21 UTC
Permalink
It seems this fellow, let's call him Joe, died and went to heaven where
everything was perfect...except there were no Ferraris. So Joe went to St.
Peter and said 'hey, if heaven is perfect, then there should be Ferraris
here, as they are the perfect car and they do have a soul' After much
negotiation, St. Peter gave Joe a Ferrari on the condition that he could
only sit in it...never drive it. Joe thought he would be satisfied.

Well, that worked for about 2 days. Then Joe went back to St. Peter and
told him that sitting and not driving was worse than not having a Ferrari at
all. So again, after much discussion, St. Peter let Joe drive the car but no
faster that 20 kilometers per hour. So, Joe is driving around on the
outskirts of heaven at 20 kph when an F50 went by at about 250 kph. Now, Joe
was quite upset, so he went back to St. Peter again and said "How come that
guy gets to drive his Ferrari so fast and I don't. I saw his license plate
and it started with NA, so he must be from Naples and why does a Neopolitan
get better treatment than me?"

St. Peter said "Don't get so upset about that F50. The NA is not
Naples...it is Nazareth and the driver is the owner's son."
Post by M_P
When you leave this earth and your expensive car behind to stand
before your Creator, how will you explain to Him why you spent so much
money on a car in the face of so many others' unmet basic needs?
Mr Smooth
2008-10-10 07:27:07 UTC
Permalink
PLEASE STOP THIS UTTER DRIVEL.

THIS IS A SITE FOR JAGUAR RELATED PROBLEMS ONLY. STOP WASTING MY TIME.

REPORTING YOU AND ANY OTHERS OF YOUR SORT TO THE APPROPRIATE MEDIATORS
WILL FOLLOW.

REGARDS MR SMOOTH.
Thomas Andersson
2008-10-10 14:56:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mr Smooth
PLEASE STOP THIS UTTER DRIVEL.
Agreed, but please save a tree, stop using upper case only.
Post by Mr Smooth
THIS IS A SITE FOR JAGUAR RELATED PROBLEMS ONLY. STOP WASTING MY TIME.
It is?
Post by Mr Smooth
REPORTING YOU AND ANY OTHERS OF YOUR SORT TO THE APPROPRIATE MEDIATORS
WILL FOLLOW.
Darn it.
Post by Mr Smooth
REGARDS MR SMOOTH.
Smooth, very smooth...

Best Wishes
Thomas
PeterD
2008-10-10 15:01:34 UTC
Permalink
On Fri, 10 Oct 2008 00:27:07 -0700 (PDT), Mr Smooth
Post by Mr Smooth
PLEASE STOP THIS UTTER DRIVEL.
THIS IS A SITE FOR JAGUAR RELATED PROBLEMS ONLY. STOP WASTING MY TIME.
REPORTING YOU AND ANY OTHERS OF YOUR SORT TO THE APPROPRIATE MEDIATORS
WILL FOLLOW.
REGARDS MR SMOOTH.
Smooth, really smooth... Shouting, no idea what Usenet is, no idea
what a moderated group is, and WTF is a 'mediator' anyway.

Suggestion, to stop wasting your time, try turning your computer off.
Joe Gliebe
2008-10-10 18:29:06 UTC
Permalink
JAGUAR?
Post by Mr Smooth
PLEASE STOP THIS UTTER DRIVEL.
THIS IS A SITE FOR JAGUAR RELATED PROBLEMS ONLY. STOP WASTING MY TIME.
REPORTING YOU AND ANY OTHERS OF YOUR SORT TO THE APPROPRIATE MEDIATORS
WILL FOLLOW.
REGARDS MR SMOOTH.
Floyd Rogers
2008-10-10 21:39:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mr Smooth
PLEASE STOP THIS UTTER DRIVEL.
THIS IS A SITE FOR JAGUAR RELATED PROBLEMS ONLY. STOP WASTING MY TIME.
REPORTING YOU AND ANY OTHERS OF YOUR SORT TO THE APPROPRIATE MEDIATORS
WILL FOLLOW.
REGARDS MR SMOOTH.
Would one of you Jaguar groupies that actually know something about Usenet
please explain to "MR SMOOTH" why he's an idiot? I wouldn't want him
to believe that BMW, Lambo, Porsche and Ferrari drivers are all smarter
than him.

FloydR
PeterD
2008-10-10 22:15:17 UTC
Permalink
On Fri, 10 Oct 2008 14:39:18 -0700, "Floyd Rogers"
Post by Floyd Rogers
Post by Mr Smooth
PLEASE STOP THIS UTTER DRIVEL.
THIS IS A SITE FOR JAGUAR RELATED PROBLEMS ONLY. STOP WASTING MY TIME.
REPORTING YOU AND ANY OTHERS OF YOUR SORT TO THE APPROPRIATE MEDIATORS
WILL FOLLOW.
REGARDS MR SMOOTH.
Would one of you Jaguar groupies that actually know something about Usenet
please explain to "MR SMOOTH" why he's an idiot? I wouldn't want him
to believe that BMW, Lambo, Porsche and Ferrari drivers are all smarter
than him.
FloydR
So are Jag drivers... I'd guess it's a lost cause myself.

Continue reading on narkive:
Search results for 'Luxury car buyers: how will you explain it to your Creator?' (Questions and Answers)
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replies
Can someone explain to me why people actually think God has anything to do with adoption?
started 2008-12-10 20:55:34 UTC
adoption
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